PoliceRP Update - 7/28/20
NEW GUN DEALER SHELVES & SUGGESTION BOARDS
CloneWarsRP Update - 5/4/20
The long awaited Dark Wilderness update arrives...
SantosRP Update - 4/28/20
NEW PHONE, BONUS PAYCHECKS, AND TOWING IMPROVEMENTS
SantosRP Update - 3/14/20
Career Stats
CloneWarsRP Update - 3/5/20
The Fury of the Republic update brings new items and weapons

Gamemaster Restructure

Status
Not open for further replies.

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Your name: DiscardPixel ( 74th Pixel )
Topic of Suggestion: Server ( Gamemaster Restructure )

Suggestion:
As many of you guys know the gamemaster structure in this server is highly tied into the staff structure, having to be admin in staff to attempt to gain gamemaster in the first place.

What I am going to be proposing today is to create an entirely new rank structure:

Trial GM : the powers of this role will be reduced from what it is now, aka they will only be able to assist in events that full GMs organise to gain experience until they are ready to become a gamemaster
GM : this role will basically be able to do most things a gamemaster can do, with a few limitations on the more tick intensive things, requiring perms from Senior GMs or Head GMs to do those certain things
Trusted/Veteran GM :
this role be able to have perms to do anything, without requiring perms
Senior GM :
purely an administrative role for the GM hierarchy, basically an "officer" for GMs, will also be able to hand out perms for the GMs
Head GM :
This will be the individual(s) that oversee the entire GM operation and will control what certain ranks can or cannot do and will also be able to hand out perms for the GMs to do certain things.

Process of Progression:

Stage 0 = Requirements :
- Certain amount of hours required to apply. (100h-300h)
- No previous bans or major citations for at least 2 months.

Stage 1 = Application : Just like a staff application, those wanting to become a gamemaster will have to apply to become a gamemaster via a forums thread, similar format, except they will also need to include an "example event" in their application. This will be left up for a week or so for the community to give their + or - votes, after which the Senior GMs and Head GMs will then separately discuss and vote for this person's application, whether or not to pass or deny their app.

Stage 2 = Trial GM : After passing their application, they will be placed into the role of the trial GM and will be given a "basic training" on how to GM, after which they will have to assist in a certain amount of events that full GMs host, gaining "points". After achieving this amount of points they will have to host their own event with an SGM/HGM watching them, using their example event that they had written when they applied.

How would this benefit the server:
As the server grows, so does the staff team, making it very messy for one hierarchy to control both staff and gamemaster, having to organise all the problems, rules and regulations. I believe it would do well for the server to have these two teams separate into their own respective structures. Being able to have their own guides, trainings and communication channels. For efficiency, quality and quantity.

It also brings up a factor of if someone does not want to be a staff member and wants to be a GM, they won't need to do both and will be fully able to focus and put their all in one.

Thanks for reading.

This is just a suggestion and anything is subject for change, if you guys have any ideas or thoughts, put em down in the comments.
 

Chat

Supporting the community!
Supporter
Verified
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Reaction score
70
Points
28
-1
It would be much easier to achieve GM and then abuse it. They are given Trial GM because they are trusted not because they got some +1s on an app. Most GMs are staff for months before they even get Trial Gamemaster basically you want GM Structure to basically become an entire other staff structure. Trial GMs exist. Normal GMs are basically the Trusted/Senior role and the Head role I believe is already Sour, 2tards, and the Server Managers.

As much as I would to become a GM through this way I don't think it would be good for the server.
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
-1
It would be much easier to achieve GM and then abuse it. They are given Trial GM because they are trusted not because they got some +1s on an app. Most GMs are staff for months before they even get Trial Gamemaster basically you want GM Structure to basically become an entire other staff structure. Trial GMs exist. Normal GMs are basically the Trusted/Senior role and the Head role I believe is already Sour, 2tards, and the Server Managers.

As much as I would to become a GM through this way I don't think it would be good for the server.
I personally think the process, would have similar “difficulty” or perhaps even more, having to write a comprehensive example event on TOP of a normal application, after which, the SGMs and HGMs would vote whether or not to pass this person.

The community’s take is added via the GM Leadership what the applicants reputation is in the server in general, their bads and goods and can use this info to come up with their own decisions. The community’s take plays no direct role in whether or not the person gets it. Ultimately the GM Leadership will have the decision to deny or pass someone for a trial.

I know trust is indeed a big issue, which is why I added the part about minimising trial GM to just an assistive role until they gain experience and assist enough to try for GM. Even the GM role, is reduced in their permissions, to completely ensure that only the most experienced and “trustworthy” GMs such as those eligible for Veteran GM would be able to access and do the more tick intensive things.

Lastly, I don’t believe trust is something that you can ONLY gain from going through the route of staff, it is something that grows by people getting to know you, your reputation and the time you dedicate to the server, there are multiple factors.

The current system is best for smaller servers with smaller teams, however defcon is growing and it would be best to adjust and prepare. I have participated in other servers before and most facilitate an effective system whereby they separate these two teams. It is not an uncommon issue.
 

Chat

Supporting the community!
Supporter
Verified
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Reaction score
70
Points
28
I personally think the process, would have similar “difficulty” or perhaps even more, having to write a comprehensive example event on TOP of a normal application, after which, the SGMs and HGMs would vote whether or not to pass this person.

The community’s take is added via the GM Leadership what the applicants reputation is in the server in general, their bads and goods and can use this info to come up with their own decisions. The community’s take plays no direct role in whether or not the person gets it. Ultimately the GM Leadership will have the decision to deny or pass someone for a trial.

I know trust is indeed a big issue, which is why I added the part about minimising trial GM to just an assistive role until they gain experience and assist enough to try for GM. Even the GM role, is reduced in their permissions, to completely ensure that only the most experienced and “trustworthy” GMs such as those eligible for Veteran GM would be able to access and do the more tick intensive things.

Lastly, I don’t believe trust is something that you can ONLY gain from going through the route of staff, it is something that grows by people getting to know you, your reputation and the time you dedicate to the server, there are multiple factors.

The current system is best for smaller servers with smaller teams, however defcon is growing and it would be best to adjust and prepare. I have participated in other servers before and most facilitate an effective system whereby they separate these two teams. It is not an uncommon issue.
Most of your points are confusing.
Defcon is not a small server. Its been around for years with starwars rp turning 1 in October or September. We've had highs and lows.

Heres my final little take on this. Too many GMs would and could break the server ruin some aspects.
Too many GMs could = no downtime for members of the server to craft and such. I feel like the Events and Downtime make the server great. I sometimes love downtime more than events.

I feel like Sour knows what hes doing and from what I have heard and seen him say or type I know he will most likely not add this as he doesnt want random people who havent worked through staff get it. Admins get gamemaster because they are trusted enough and have been around in staff long enough to know the rules.
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Most of your points are confusing.
Defcon is not a small server. Its been around for years with starwars rp turning 1 in October or September. We've had highs and lows.

Heres my final little take on this. Too many GMs would and could break the server ruin some aspects.
Too many GMs could = no downtime for members of the server to craft and such. I feel like the Events and Downtime make the server great. I sometimes love downtime more than events.

I feel like Sour knows what hes doing and from what I have heard and seen him say or type I know he will most likely not add this as he doesnt want random people who havent worked through staff get it. Admins get gamemaster because they are trusted enough and have been around in staff long enough to know the rules.
Considering the server lives and dies in one timezone mainly, being NA, peaking at the range of 60-80, it is comparatively to other CWRP servers a Small-Medium Sized server, 1 year of age is still considered young for a GMOD server. (Even though other servers from defcon were up beforehand, it is still considered new)

Moving onto the fact of “too many GMs”, this is something that can once again be controlled just like the staff applications are being controlled and moderated as of right now. If there are too many, either lock it entirely or lock it for certain timezones. So as to allow under populated timezones to still be able to get GMs

Also, there are presentable communities in the AU/EU as well, however this number usually sticks at like levels of 10-20 pop as there is nothing that goes on during this time. More GMs would do to benefit these timezones, increasing overall activity and community size.

Lastly, I feel like you didn't even read the majority of my suggestion and skimmed through. Half of the points you bring up are ones I didn’t include or have already addressed. L
 

SwissCheese400

Veteran
Administrator
CloneWarsRP Staff
Verified
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Reaction score
60
Points
28
The current management team does a amazing job at handling GMs. They Give people perms as need be and don’t promo to full GM all the time. In the most recent batch of GMs only one has gotten full GM. Doing this would add unnecessary ranks to a system that is perfectly fine the way it is. And with the more “tick sensitive things” could be applied to anything that you can spawn in with the q menu, from props to droids If there is enough players on. Also GMs are handpicked the application process would allow anyone to have a good chance at becoming one, not just the trusted individuals
 

Mills

Mills type beat
Forum Manager
Head Admin
CloneWarsRP Staff
Staff Affairs
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Reaction score
30
Points
18
As an unofficial response for management. This system that you've suggested is more meant for DarkRP, due to our limitations within the gamemode that we run. It is difficult for us to give out Q menu and the ability to spawn in items to just anyone via ULX or elsewise. The other thing is the Q menu with-in our gamemode has a lot of power, and with the current way it's ran we believe that if you think you would want to be a gamemaster it'd be better to show your worth as a Staff member first. This way we know who's serious about wanting gamemaster and who's not. There's always complaints regarding "Oh, gamemasters are staff only kinda stupid".. and that can be understood if we were a DarkRP server. However we do things differently on DG, alot of things that you see here are our own creation and our own ideas. With this in mind; I appreciate the suggestion and a suggestion like this has been made before. But I personally don't see this happening as it doesn't really have a role nor fit the ideologies of our server in mind.

Now with this being said, I am just saying this as a person and not a member of management. If this recieves enough votes in favor for it and is agreed upon by the management team and high staff team then it may be implemented. However don't get your hopes up too high because we've had a conversation like this in the past that was denied.

Either way, thank you for making a suggestion and continuing to play with us :)
 

SomeGuy

Donator
Donator
Verified
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Reaction score
14
Points
8
BIG -1
Reason is that being a GM has a lot of power and should be given to the most trusted staff. It can be abused a lot so this is a super -1
 

Balfazan

Veteran
Administrator
CloneWarsRP Staff
Verified
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Reaction score
39
Points
28
-1
You say that it could be as much, or even more work to be able to get GM through this system. But with the staff system, not only do you need to be a staff member for over 80 days, you need to go through multiple applications, including promotion ones. Throughout all of these applications, other staff members will judge your ability to be responsible, active, and trustworthy. I cannot speak for other Defcon Servers, but with CWRP, we have quite a few EU staff members, some of which are working towards both admin and Gamemaster. Another thing you mention is that trust is something that isn't only gained through staff, this is true. But with being a staff member, you are being watched by the higher ups, and they see what you do, and can hold you responsible for any mess ups. And like many other people have said in this thread, Gamemaster has the ability to completely destroy the server whether it be crashing it, or worse. So the Management and High Staff need to be able to have a basis to judge people off of, and test them.

I apologize if this came off a bit hostile, but I just wanted to put my two cents out there, have a nice day my guy!
 

Sweet

Newbie
Administrator
SantosRP Staff
Sponsor
Verified
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Reaction score
12
Points
3
I mean I think in general it would be a good idea I just believe its more work to implement than its worth. And due to gamemode restrictions its very important that management has the utmost trust in the GM's before allowing them access to that kind of power.
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
BIG -1
Reason is that being a GM has a lot of power and should be given to the most trusted staff. It can be abused a lot so this is a super -1
Which is why I said to reduce powers of trial GMs and GMs.
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
As an unofficial response for management. This system that you've suggested is more meant for DarkRP, due to our limitations within the gamemode that we run. It is difficult for us to give out Q menu and the ability to spawn in items to just anyone via ULX or elsewise. The other thing is the Q menu with-in our gamemode has a lot of power, and with the current way it's ran we believe that if you think you would want to be a gamemaster it'd be better to show your worth as a Staff member first. This way we know who's serious about wanting gamemaster and who's not. There's always complaints regarding "Oh, gamemasters are staff only kinda stupid".. and that can be understood if we were a DarkRP server. However we do things differently on DG, alot of things that you see here are our own creation and our own ideas. With this in mind; I appreciate the suggestion and a suggestion like this has been made before. But I personally don't see this happening as it doesn't really have a role nor fit the ideologies of our server in mind.

Now with this being said, I am just saying this as a person and not a member of management. If this recieves enough votes in favor for it and is agreed upon by the management team and high staff team then it may be implemented. However don't get your hopes up too high because we've had a conversation like this in the past that was denied.

Either way, thank you for making a suggestion and continuing to play with us :)
This system is one that has been used in more SWRP servers as compared to DRP, moving on to the seriousness portion, I believe that it does indeed show devotion and seriousness via a application process that is held to a certain standard.

I have previously been a GM/Staff member on larger servers with these systems and its just easier to run it separately, although it might take a bit of work to code in the roles and permissions and all that, I believe it is worth it. Lets the staff concentrate on moderation and lets the gamemasters focus on creating the highest quality events possible.]

I honestly think out of all the servers I have played on however, this has the highest potential to be mega sized. However, one problem I can point out is that while this server's gameplay functions are top notch, the systems and structures in general are outdated.
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
-1
You say that it could be as much, or even more work to be able to get GM through this system. But with the staff system, not only do you need to be a staff member for over 80 days, you need to go through multiple applications, including promotion ones. Throughout all of these applications, other staff members will judge your ability to be responsible, active, and trustworthy. I cannot speak for other Defcon Servers, but with CWRP, we have quite a few EU staff members, some of which are working towards both admin and Gamemaster. Another thing you mention is that trust is something that isn't only gained through staff, this is true. But with being a staff member, you are being watched by the higher ups, and they see what you do, and can hold you responsible for any mess ups. And like many other people have said in this thread, Gamemaster has the ability to completely destroy the server whether it be crashing it, or worse. So the Management and High Staff need to be able to have a basis to judge people off of, and test them.

I apologize if this came off a bit hostile, but I just wanted to put my two cents out there, have a nice day my guy!
I appreciate all comments as it points out any kinks in my argument.

This system that I am proposing is essentially, going to be harder to get GM, but it is not going to take as long, in my mind, you can go from trial to full GM, in the span of 1-2 months. I 100% agree trust is always a big issue and to minimise the possibility messing up, it is why I suggested to minimise the Trial GM's powers greatly as well as GMs powers, I can see however, that this can't be "enough" which is why the application process could be held to an extremely high standard so as to ensure only good people pass the first stage, because in reality, I don't think some small brain gamer would write an high-quality application just to troll and if they did, the community would most likely -1 them which would give info to GM Leadership that hey, this guy is bad.

I can provide examples to these applications I'm talking about if needed.
 

SwissCheese400

Veteran
Administrator
CloneWarsRP Staff
Verified
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Reaction score
60
Points
28
Trail GMs don't get Q-menu right away. They have to work for it doing good events and a decent amount of them to prove to the management team they they are worthy of said responsibility. with the current system its hard to just get GM, much less q-menu. and I don't think 2 moths is enough time for management to fully understand someone and their intentions with the server and staffing on it. That's why you need at the very least 77 days as staff, and no one has ever gotten GM with only 77 days
 

DiscardPixel

Newbie
Verified
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Reaction score
1
Points
3
I'd hate to be the unprofessional one around here, but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Very cool, thank you Kanye.

On a serious note, if you wanted to provide input, I’d be happy to receive.
 

Arlu3n

Bot Developer & Maintainer
Developer
Verified
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Reaction score
5
Points
3
To be honest with you, I understand what you are trying to suggest and stuff, but personally I am against it. Not only to mention the stuff by the previous posts, but there is also a good phrase out there in the world. "Never change a running system" -> the current GM system is working, so why change it to something which might work out, but require a lot more work which can be put into other updates.
 

Squidy

xXFaZe_SquidyXx
Forum Manager
Server Manager
PurgeRP Staff
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Reaction score
68
Points
28
I think having to be staff for a while is a good idea as it helps show your commitment to the server and lets other staff trust you more easily, as a player there's not much you can do to gain the trust of staff as you don't have any powers, I know you suggested a ranking system but from my perspective being a GM and staff go hand in hand and I really don't think having a non-staff GM would really fit, it also seems overly complicated when we already have a full staff system. Having this system would also increase the amount of GMs and I feel like they would want to do events all the time, which I would like bc I'm not a fan of downtime but I know everyone else seems to enjoy it so it would really change the server and even if you kept the rate of events the same I think having to many GMs would mean a lot of conflicting opinions during events or make it harder for one GM to be given the chance to do an event(if that's how it works I'm not staff there so I wouldn't know). But like I said I'm pretty sure GM get staff powers so it only makes sense that they already a respected member of staff when they get it, plus you said it would help staff focus on staff stuff but CW has around 40 staff members so I don't think having a few people working on events a few times a day really impacts the moderation of the server and along with that it seems they have some high standards for their staff team so I don't doubt lower numbers would really impact their performance if it came to that. but I'm also not CW staff so idk if any of that means anything.
 

NoahG

I break stuff.
Developer
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Reaction score
17
Points
8
This isn't a Minecraft server, no need for 30+ Gamemaster ranks. This is just stupid imo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top